4 days, 3 nights camping

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4 days, 3 nights camping

Postby MarkoSerbia » 13 Jul 2017 13:09

few days ago I got back from camping. My camping location is my potential bug out location so this time I decided to load 100 liter backpack and test my stamina. weight of backpack was around 50 kilograms with only 2 liter canteen. Reason I don't carry more water with myself is because I camp near cleanest river in Europe, and there are at least 8 springs in area. So I have 3 hours drive and then 5 to 6 km walk depending where I choose camping site. Backpack became heavy, really heavy after 2 km. Terrain is rough, in some parts uphill I was fighting with gravity. that heavy backpack wanted to roll me downhill :) but I manage to get on site with only 2 short breaks and I really enjoyed in nature.

conclusion:
- 50 kg in backpack is really heavy. ( usually for camping I use smaller backpack and it weights around 25 to 30 kilograms)
- I need to lose weight, I'm a big guy, I have a lot of strength, but need to work on endurance.
- must learn fly fishing (river is full with big trouts, although only sport fishing is allowed, and you must release all fish, in emergency situation, that would be great food source)
- I should bury small plastic container or barrel somewhere in woods and keep there stuff like paracord, tarp, knife, fire kit, fishing kit, mess kit, folding saw etc.

I hope you guys also enjoy in nature from time to time. :)
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Re: 4 days, 3 nights camping

Postby Ekiwinox » 13 Jul 2017 16:54

I commend you for this effort. This was very good for you to do.

First thought is did you tell two people where you were going exactly and when to expect you back? Responsible people who cared if you got back.

50 kilograms equals 110.2311311 pounds!?!. Did I do the math wrong?
Please either tell me I did or transport me to the beginning of the trail
to go through the pack item by item with MarkoSerbia.
Twisted ankles, etc. Just Say No!
Walking slower is better than faster.
At first I thought 50 kilograms is maybe about 50 pounds.
Going to have to get that to more like 25 at first and work to 20 pounds.
Foot wear was either light weight or sturdy boots with lots of brand new fluffy liners?

Were you alone? Did you check in twice a day with somebody who was expecting your call? Did they have instructions of what to do if you did not call in by an hour later?

"cleanest river in Europe" you still filter it right?

My personal item, a reference to the television show Survivor would be an extra water bottle even in this water rich area. Weird but that is me. Especially if hiking alone.

6 km equals 3.72823 miles.
I wonder how much of the population could do this with that pack?
Or even without a pack.

"only 2 short breaks" I hereby give you permission to take longer and more frequent breaks. Did you bring pain medication? I bet the day after things hurt.

Cool math trick: Converting between miles and kilometers
multiplying by 6, dividing by 10
https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilde ... kilometers

There must have been items you decided to not carry next time.
I would like to hear that list.
It would help us all.
Plus it is fun.

Oh, I really like that you included a "conclusion:"

"need to lose weight" eh. If it happens, it happens. I'd rather see you not get hurt exercising. Better the weight than an injury. Keep feet placement in mind not speed. Those that do not do not fare well.

"must learn fly fishing" This is a place to put your energy. I think you will so enjoy catching and releasing fish. The pursuit of of better places to fish will naturally help you to put in time in nature and miles. Bring a friend or two or three. Maybe there is already somebody doing this who needs somebody to join them? If you are fishing and see somebody else fishing five miles from the nearest road offer them a cold bottle of beer. Chat. Chat. Chat. These are your people. Exchange information and keep up contact with them. People you meet five miles from the nearest road have already self selected themselves as potential people who you want to know better and who want to know you better. A good use of pack weight would be delectable edibles to share. Beef jerky, fine cheese of two types, crackers, olives, pretzels, Devil Dogs, mustard with salami to dip into it with. Fine cigar. A yell across the pond of "Hey, you want a cold beer?" would be a great start.

"I should bury small plastic container" Yes. Think heavy items. Also I have helped bury a tiny cooler in a back yard for a treasure chest birthday party. Removing containers from the ground that have been buried is not fun. Not fun at all. Almost impossible.

You really got a massive amount of value out the the trip you took.

I also get the idea that you really enjoyed it.

If you try to invite others we have found that one can invite a zillion people and a tiny bit will say yes and an even tinier bit will actually show up and of those most will before you get to camp have an issue to turn around. This is normal.

I enjoyed your post and had fun replying to it.

I know zero about Serbia. Is there something I should know about it?
I'm thinking the old housewives know how to preserve food using the old methods.
Any information you would like to share about preserving cabbage or other garden vegetables or preserving grain or meat, etc. I would greatly enjoy hearing about.

I pretty much know zero about Serbia.
Maybe less than zero.
I am 100% uneducated about Serbia.
I am surprised I am even talking to a person that lives in Serbia.
Nice to meet you.
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Re: 4 days, 3 nights camping

Postby MarkoSerbia » 25 Jul 2017 06:57

first, sorry for late response, I was busy these days.

Few friends and family members knew where I was going, and I was there with 3 nephews, young teenagers. In that area cell phones don't work, only up hill, so we called family when we parked car. In case of emergency if needed somebody would run up hill and call Mountain rescue service for help. But, I am Army trained for giving first aid, and I'm doing my best to teach nephews at least basics. In camping anybody can expect injuries like twisted ankles, cuts from saw or axe and maybe burn from fire or hot cookware. I always carry first aid kit. In Serbia, first aid kit is mandatory in all vehicles, and it's good one. I use one like that, with added things like elastic bandage for twisted ankles, pack of band-aids for small cuts, hydrogen peroxide for cleaning cuts.

Foot wear were and always are sturdy combat boots.

Yes, 50 kg equals 110 pounds, but it sound less heavy, when you say it in kilograms :D
Backpack is 100 liters high quality mountaineering backpack, big one. I carried one 2 person tent, one big heavy but perfect Serbian army sleeping bag, reserve clothing (pants, sweater, M69 jacket, few t-shirts, shorts, underwear); Fiskars S X10 axe (recommend, great axe, 1 kilogram), folding saw, folding plastic chair (it's necessary around fire when I cook for 4 persons ), first aid kit, fire kit, military tarp, paracord 100 feet, Serbian army mess kit (I will open topic about this, It's best ), 2 liters canteen, and extra 1 liter canteen is in mess kit. Cooking pot, skillet. Food: few MRE's, some canned beans, corn, tomatoes. rice and lentils. potatoes, fresh tomatoes, paprika and some bacon, sausages, candies, coffee. I carried most of food, because kid are kid, they can't carry as much as I can. Kids carried MRE's, sardines, spam, tuna cans. water bottles.
also, I always carry two books, one is for mushrooms, second is for wild edibles. pocket size books.
I forgot, crossbow and recurve bow with bolts and arrows for fun :)

"cleanest river in Europe" you still filter it right? no, no filtering, believe me, this water is perfect. I drink it for years. no factories or farms around, no rain in days. But I have now Sawyer mini filter.

for next time I will carry less clothing, and probably less fresh food. I don't know yet, still have to think about it.

about fly fishing. I have fisherman friend, and they know lot of other fishermans, so It will be easy to learn from them someday. but you are right, cold beer is good start :)

you can start to learn about Serbia here http://www.srbija.travel/home.779.html It's small country, good people, beautiful nature, good food :)

and nice to meet you too :)
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Re: 4 days, 3 nights camping

Postby Joe » 26 Jul 2017 15:48

That is a heavy rucksack - no matter who or where you are. Why so heavy? I am assuming you are not carrying batteries for the group radio, explosives, nor extra ammo for "the machine gun"....
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Re: 4 days, 3 nights camping

Postby kmussack » 27 Jul 2017 05:54

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Re: 4 days, 3 nights camping

Postby Joe » 30 Jul 2017 08:37

I remember when that photo came out. I was working at the Center of Army Lessons Learned. That pic spurred an effort to basically re-look and reissue a newer and supposedly better (but not really) "Soldiers Load and Weight of a Nation".

A Story.
I was a young Second Lieutenant, Light Infantry Rifle Platoon Leader on a big exercise in ..... South Korea.
My Battalion Commander (LTC Tom Hill who later went on to lead the largest air assault in history - the famous "left hook" in Desert Storm) had recently held a previous job as Aide de Camp to General Wickham who was at that time, the Chief of Staff of the Army. There is a famous photo of Wickham awarding CIBs (Combat Infantryman's Badge)for service in Grenada to Rangers standing in the rain. The man holding the pillow with yet-to-be-awarded CIBs is then Major, Tom Hill.

So, General Wickham wanted to visit an Infantry platoon defensive position in the exercise and I was picked. If one has never served in the military, it may be difficult to imagine the hoops that are jumped through when a unit knows a General is coming to visit - let alone THE General. The exercise was a relatively free flowing one ranging of a big chunk of SK and involving thousands of soldiers (and Airmen, and Marines - not sure about the Navy). But for me, once selected, it came to a complete halt.

My Company Commander - a Captain told me, "your position needs to be PERFECT and "by the book". Then he sent his First Sergeant to Inspect. Then HE came to inspect. Then the Battalion Operations officer and Sergeant Major came to inspect. Then Tom Hill came to inspect. Then some people of forgotten rank from Brigade came to inspect.... Not only did the position need to be perfect (it ended up being excellent) but we had to demonstrate to each visitor our dog and pony show assigned to me ("Sir, you will note that our positions affords excellent fields of fire and observation onto Route Red; Here Sir, you will note one of my two primary M60 positons...."). ALSO (and the point of this story) since Light Infantry was a supposedly "new concept" in the Army - we had large rucksacks so I had a static display (with soldiers rehearsed in their speeches) of three rucksacks: A "standard" Light Infantryman's rucksack packed, and one laid out in a very pretty display, as well as a packed RTO (radio operator) ruck.

We did this for THREE LONG DAYS until the General finally showed up. After the tour we stopped by the static display and after hearing the speeches, Wickham moved to put on the standard rucksack. Wickham is (was?) a little man. He was SURROUNDED by aides and security and representatives from every echelon on the exercise - it was a crowd. He went to heft it and it was too heavy so two stout men helped him put it on. It really was the standard ruck that everyone carried. Here is this short man bent over with the ruck on his back and he looks at my Battalion Commander and says, "Tom, this is TOO HEAVY! - DO something about it!". As he is saying this two of his staff are busily scribbling in little notebooks and he looks at one of them and said, "Did you get that?"

"Yes, Sir".

"We need to do something about this" says Wickham. About two months later when we were back at base and the exercise was a fading memory the Army starting pushing and publishing all kinds of stuff on reducing the weight and load on soldiers and actually trying to enforce it. They even banned Alice Large rucksacks in my unit for awhile until I was assigned as the Scout Platoon leader and had to do another layout for my Battalion Commander to show why I NEEDED my Scouts to have large rucks....

Anyway, at the time (and still, I reckon) I looked at that Army-wide effort to reduce Soldier loads as a direct result of my actions on a hillside in South Korea.
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Re: 4 days, 3 nights camping

Postby kmussack » 30 Jul 2017 12:09

Too light to fight, too heavy to run.
General Wickam was 101st Commander when I was there.
As I recall his left arm was almost useless from wounds received in the RVN.
"He was in my Air Assault School class." this was a claim made by everyone in the division no matter when they may have attended.

Years ago I discarded all of my old uniforms and stuff but somehow this survived.
My original Air Assault wings.
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Re: 4 days, 3 nights camping

Postby Joe » 03 Aug 2017 19:39

The Bullwinkle Badge. Have one of those too
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Re: 4 days, 3 nights camping

Postby Pilgrim52 » 26 Aug 2017 16:48

Getting back to the problem of heavy packs... When faced with a problem that I know has been faced by millions of people over the centuries, I like to study up on solutions they came up with. A very ancient way to transport heavy equipment was developed by the American Plains Indians and commonly called the travois. Making a wheel is difficult and time consuming. A travois was like a cart that didn't use wheels. They came in three sizes, depending on whether it was intended to be pulled by a dog, a person or a horse. The design was always the same, however. Two long poles were lashed together at one end. The poles were then spread apart and two or more cross poles were lashed across them depending on the size and type of load to be transported. The end result was more or less an "A" frame. The animal or person then pulled from the top of the "A" while most of the weight was supported by the two lower ends which dragged on the ground. (Having a long wide strap or two like a salvaged seat belt to go around your shoulders and support the top makes the haul much more comfortable.) Entire Indian villages were moved from place to place using this brilliantly simple low-tech method. The only drawback I can see to it is that it leaves a trail that the most helpless city slicker could follow, so it would be useless in a situation where not being tracked would be a matter of life and death. A more modern solution to the problem of transport of heavy loads has been found in the field of search and rescue. Sometimes, rescuers are unable to rely on vehicular transport of trauma victims in the backcountry because of lack of roads or bad weather grounding helicopters. A common tool in these cases is a large, low pressure rubber tire which can be bolted on the bottom of a Stokes litter. The weight of the patient is centered over the tire and the litter is stabilized by four rescuers on the sides. Going up or downhill is made easier by rope systems. Much less effort is spent using this system over having the litter carried by hand. One person would have a hard time pulling this basket loaded with gear, however, as it would be too unstable having only one wheel. Many Western movies show horse drawn Conestoga wagons taking settlers west but in reality, many could not afford these vehicles as they were very expensive. The Mormons solved this problem by building and using handcarts. It couldn't have been anything but very hard work, but it was a viable solution. Today, any good hardware or lawn and garden store can order two or four wheeled handcarts for use around the home to haul dirt, flowerpots, mulch or whatever and they come in sizes from bushel basket to large enough to haul four straw bales at one time. I have owned two large double-wheeled carts at my country home for 30 years and would not be without them. I even have a plan to use them for a bugout if an EMP or lack of fuel makes a vehicular getaway impossible. In the US military, arctic troops carry their tents, stoves, fuel and other gear on an Ahkio sled which glides over snow and ice as if it were greased. The design was based on sleds used by native Arctic peoples for thousands of years. I have a small model of this sled which I carry in my jeep during winter in case I have to abandon my car during a snowy emergency but want to bring my sleeping bag, food, etc, with me.

Anyway, my point is that hauling hundreds of pounds of gear on your back isn't always necessary if you stop and think beforehand how others transported their gear, then modify and use their ideas to your advantage. BTW, my comments on making and using a travois isn't based on something I read or heard. Back in the early 80's, I took a week of leave from my military duties and wandered around the desert in Texas studying the flora and fauna and testing desert survival tips I had heard about. I didn't know that water is actually fairly common in the deserts of the American Southwest in the spring. Thus, I brought along a 5 gallon can of water along with my other gear. It weighed, of course, 40 lbs and I was not about to carry it along with my other gear. So, I made a travois out of some small trees I found, lashed my food, water, shelter and other stuff to it and wandered around for a week, dragging it behind me. (My "pack" was actually a duffel bag which tied onto the travois easily) When I was finished with it, I salvaged the 550 cord I tied it together with and discarded the poles and sticks. Believe me, travois really do make travel with lots of heavy gear much easier so long as you aren't worried about someone tracking you.
I don't watch survival "reality" TV to be educated. I watch it to be entertained. There's a BIG difference.
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Re: 4 days, 3 nights camping

Postby whls4legs » 27 Aug 2017 08:26

I have a couple two wheel carts we use here on the farm, (bicycle type wheels, filled w/foam), we call them our rickshaws. I personally think they are too fragile for taking long distances. I do like, for durability, the common 2'×4' garden wagon. They easily accept a larger deck, up to 4'×6', add a lip or taller border, and you can load one up with more than you can tug along. Fill tires with no-flat foam or replace w/solids. The trade off is the added friction of two more, (wider), tires for stability/durability/weight capicity, opposed to the light touch and maneuverability of the rickshaw, which may be better suited for rougher terrain, if it holds up.

Thanks for the reminder of the travois. Having only ever put one together, with my kids in scouts, I lashed, (no 550 cord commonly available then), a spacer between the skids ends, (about 18" spread), for some additional stability. It surely made the hump easier for the kids.
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